What Show Airs Where? Inside the Hulu–ABC Programming Machine

If they handed out medals in the streaming wars, Craig Erwich would have long ago snagged one for, if nothing else, longevity. Exactly ten years ago this week — April 7, 2014 to be precise — the veteran TV exec joined Hulu as the nascent streamer’s head of content. While the service had dabbled a little with first-run fare (remember The Awesomes?), back then it was still basically just the place you went for next-day episodes of current network hits or to binge watch old sitcoms and dramas. So it is not an exaggeration to say that Erwich has overseen the development of every significant Hulu-branded original the streamer has ever made, starting with the 2016 launch of The Handmaid’s Tale, the first streaming show to win an Emmy for best drama.

A decade later, Erwich still spends a good part of every work day thinking about the Hulu programming slate, but following multiple exec shuffles and at least one major corporate ownership change, he now manages a much larger overall portfolio. As president of Disney Television Group, Erwich reports directly to Disney Entertainment co-chairman Dana Walden and has day-to-day control of not only Hulu Originals, but also ABC Entertainment, Freeform and Disney Branded Television (the division which makes family-friendly fare the recent Disney+ hit Percy Jackson and the Olympians). That’s a pretty diverse collection of programming brands, but the breadth of Erwich’s role is not accidental.

TV operations at Disney (and many other legacy media companies) in 2024 exist as part of a much more fluid structure than in years past, when, for example, cable and broadcast arms of the same conglomerate were often siloed off from each other. But today, while ABC, Disney+, Hulu, and Disney’s cable brands (including one not overseen by Erwich, FX) may still exist as separate businesses for consumers, at Disney there’s overlap everywhere. Only Murders in the Building is very clearly a hit Hulu comedy readying its fourth season for later this year, but in January, Erwich essentially relaunched it as a brand new series … on ABC. Similarly, after Disney+ briefly stole Dancing With the Stars away from ABC in 2022, last fall the long-running hit returned to the Alphabet network while also continuing as a simulcast on D+, with episodes also streaming next day on Hulu. With so much cross-pollination going on, there’s a logic to having someone at Erwich’s level serving as a day-to-day creative director and content traffic cop.

Erwich brings something else essential to the role: Three decades of experience working on the development and production of TV shows, both in the linear and digital eras of the medium. While his decade at Hulu almost qualifies him as a streaming pioneer, his resume goes all the way back to the 1990s when he was overseeing shows such as Melrose Place, King of the Hill, 24, Prison Break and The O.C. at Fox.

Given the breadth of Erwich’s current job, I had a lot to ask him about. We spent 45 minutes talking about the state of the Disney Television Group, specifically ABC Entertainment and Hulu Originals. As noted, there’s more cross-pollination than ever between the two brands, and Erwich explained how he approaches these crossovers and how they’ve evolved over the last year or two. He also discussed his thoughts on making procedural dramas for streaming, the surge in popularity for older reality franchises such as Dancing with the Stars and The Bachelor, the possibility of another 9-1-1 spinoff and why broadcast network ABC still matters to a streaming-focused company such as Disney.

So back in February of last year, ABC, FX and Freeform all aired the pilot for The Mandalorian about a week before season three of the show debuted on Disney+. It felt pretty much like a stunt to drive awareness of one of the company’s biggest hits. But a year later— in January — ABC ran the complete first season of Only Murders in the Building, rolling out the ten episodes over four consecutive Tuesdays. It was basically turning a Hulu original into ABC programming. It felt like a notable, strategic evolution in how you programmed both platforms. Is that the right way to look at it?

CRAIG ERWICH: Well, The Mandalorian was an excellent programming opportunity for the ABC audience because there were people who hadn’t seen it, and it also provided, I think, a good promotional window. We have been learning as we’ve gone along, and although you reference Only Murders in the Building as a Hulu show, it’s spiritually got a lot in common with an ABC show, which is one of the things that I think was key to the success of it. It’s broad in its appeal, it’s deeply emotional, it’s highly funny, and it’s got big, fun television stars at the center of it. So it has a lot of the brand values that an ABC show has.

In the case of Only Murders, we realized that as popular and as widely-viewed and  lauded as the show was, there were still people who had not seen it. So we really put a lot of thought into how we were going to roll out the show. We really approached it as if it was a “new show,” and we spent months figuring out what’s the right strategy: What’s the right time of year to do it, how do we market it, how do we format it so we give the viewers the best experience.

And it seemed to work: Some of the episodes had a bigger audience than some first-run network comedies. You’ve got to be thinking about doing more of this, no? 

I certainly think there will be more opportunities for us to bring Hulu shows to the ABC audience, or shows that maybe even come from other places within the Disney family.

You’re not the only company which has toyed with using programming from streaming or cable to fill in-season slots on your broadcast schedule. CBS obviously aired Yellowstone from Paramount Network last fall and is putting Paramount+’s Tulsa King on this summer. It feels like we’re now at a place where legacy companies with broadcast platforms aren’t just using them to funnel audiences to their streamers, but actually thinking of their streamers as program suppliers for their linear networks. Is that how you see it? 

We always start with the audience. So if there is an opportunity to bring them a show that they might not have previously been exposed to for a variety of reasons then it’s certainly something we can lean into.  But it has to be the right opportunity for the show, in that it creatively aligns with the platform. You don’t want to take a show and put it on the wrong platform where an audience is not predisposed to liking a show. It just requires a lot of thought and care versus just throwing something on willy-nilly.

Let’s talk about your role overseeing original content for Hulu, which has changed a lot in the last decade. You now are in charge of content for ABC and Disney Branded Television as well, and it’s all one company. How do you decide what’s a Hulu-branded original vs. one that feels like it should have the ABC label on it?

So a great Hulu Original is something that both reflects and pierces popular culture, and is addictive. These are shows that you can’t stop watching or talking about, and they’re of the highest quality, and they generate conversation. And that will continue to be both the brand filter and the goal for Hulu Originals. It may take on different forms, but we’re looking to just continue to do better and better for ourselves and for our audience.

I think that when you talk about the difference between a Hulu show and an ABC show, don’t forget Hulu viewers watch both. It really just depends on their mood.  And what Dana [Walden]  has articulated so clearly is that each of our programming brands is responsible for servicing a different need for the direct-to-consumer viewer or audience. So there are people who want to watch their Kardashians and then they want to watch Handmaid’s Tale, and then they want to dive into a long-running, case-driven procedural. ABC has a deep expertise in bringing those procedurals to market, shows like Will Trent, 9-1-1, and Grey’s — and those shows are on Hulu three hours later. So for the Hulu customer, it’s a small difference between what’s a Hulu Original and an ABC show. They’re just watching shows.

But if a writer is pitching you a Hulu show, or maybe even after you see a pilot, aren’t there moments now where you stop and think, “Well, hey, this could actually work for the ABC audience, too?” How I Met Your Father wasn’t necessarily the sort of sitcom ABC has been making lately, but it was a multi-camera sitcom that historically would’ve been right at home on a broadcast network. So in situations where the distinction isn’t so crystal clear, how do you make the call where a show goes?  

The power and the strength of the Disney company is that when you think about all of our platforms, even the ones that I’m not involved in, there is a place for every story. Yes, there are hit shows that have broad appeal, whether it’s Abbott Elementary or Only Murders in the Building, that can work on a variety of platforms. That’s why they’re hits. But when we hear [pitches for] these shows, we really just think about what’s the best way to bring them to market. The Hulu Originals have probably more of a pay television sensibility. They tend to be more highly serialized, which is not ideal for network television. They might be covering subject matter or have content that’s not suitable for a broadcast platform. So these things tend to sort themselves out.

I also think you have to look at what the shows are trying to accomplish for each platform. At ABC, we need shows that can generate 18 to 20 episodes a year of television, and certain ideas lend themselves to that: case-driven shows, cops, doctors, lawyers, so on and so forth. With Hulu originals, the primary purpose of them is to drive both conversation and engagement, so there, an eight-to-10 episode order might be right. So each show has to accomplish something different for each platform.

An ABC show, the idea of it is, these are shows that are on in people’s living rooms when they’re coming home after work. These channels are part of their family and part of their community, and there’s a certain tonality for broadcast television that people turn on broadcast TV for, and that might be different than Hulu. Again, that doesn’t mean that the audience can’t and won’t enjoy both or the same person won’t and can’t enjoy both.

The line between what’s a streaming show vs. a network show really does seem to be blurring more lately. Netflix and Max have both announced they’re going to make some procedural dramas that will likely feel a lot like what you might have seen on TNT a decade ago. Do you feel a need to do something similar in the procedural space for Hulu, or do you already have your share of procedurals on the platform through next-day runs of shows from ABC and Fox? 

I think a procedural can be very broadly defined, and there’s a spectrum of them. There are procedurals where they’re literally cases that are resolved fully — traditional procedurals like The Rookie. And then there are ones that could be more highly serialized or play with the form. That might be an interesting way for Hulu to explore them, though that’s not to say those couldn’t be on ABC. We always start with, “What does the viewer need?” So should we feel that the viewers need more procedurals — however we’re defining it — and that there’s an opportunity for Hulu to make a great one, certainly we’ll do that. Again, we are not going to get caught up on brands or budgets. But right now, it’s a very efficient system.

Others have asked you this in recent weeks, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring up Ryan Murphy’s 9-1-1. It moved to ABC this season and has immediately boosted your Thursday numbers. There’s been talk about 9-1-1: Lone Star also moving over from Fox, but either way, are you going to do another spin-off?

Ryan’s got so many ideas. And he is doing a new show for ABC that will be on next fall. It stars Joshua Jackson, and it’s called Dr. Odyssey. It’s a medical procedural set on a cruise ship. So we’re certainly always hoping to do more with him.

One reason you might need more dramas is because The Good Doctor and Station 19 are ending this season. It does seem as if networks are now finishing up successful shows a bit earlier than they might have in the past, in part because there seems to be less room on their schedules for expensive scripted series. Does that mean making more tough choices and ending some things you might have kept going a few years ago? 

I’ve been doing this for a long time. You always have to make tough choices. And regardless of how many time slots you have or how many shows you’re launching in the fall season, you also never have enough great shows that can have an impact on the culture and move your business forward. So we’re just focused on developing and launching things and bringing them to market with tremendous focus and intent. That strategy and that discipline has really worked for us over the last few years.

We had an incredibly tailored approach to how we launched Abbott Elementary, putting that [pilot] episode up early so people could discover it on Hulu. When we launched Will Trent, we launched it mid-season because we knew that would give us time to really craft an amazing marketing campaign and then launch it after we had New Year’s Rockin’ Eve and football last year. The same care and detail went into bringing Only Murders in the Building out, as did the Golden Bachelor. Bringing 9-1-1 over from Fox to ABC was six, seven months of intense work, both by the producers and by the network to get the message out. That laser focus is really what we are about, versus how many.

This feels like a natural point to move into your unscripted portfolio, especially at ABC. There’s been a lot of success there lately, including the decision to bring back Dancing With the Stars from Disney+ to the network, while still keeping it on streaming. Were you happy with the results?

Dancing With the Stars, I think, embodies what an ABC show is. It’s joyful. It’s a show the whole family can watch together. It’s highly original and it’s unpredictable. And we know that different audiences want to watch their shows at different times and different places. So this was the perfect show to put on both ABC and Disney+ and have it be on Hulu the next day. I think it’s really a poster child for what our organization can do when we have the right show, when we get behind it.

One unscripted show you have renewed for next season is Golden Bachelor, which will do a Golden Bachelorette season. And the most recent season of The Bachelor finished up with some of its best multiplatform ratings since 2021. The franchise actually seems to be getting a new surge of interest, which is not what you usually see in older series. But the same thing has happened over at CBS with Survivor. Is it all about the proper care and maintenance of these tentpoles?

I think care and maintenance is the operative phrase. Golden Bachelor was an idea that had been in the works — or at least in the hallway conversation — for a while. But we needed to find the right cast for it because that show is only as good as its cast. And it certainly was a show that hit the right chord at the right time. And on The Bachelor, Joey was an excellent bachelor — one of our best in a long time.

The other big unscripted hit this season on ABC was Monday Night Football, which was a simulcast from ESPN. It’s the first time in years the full roster of games also aired on ABC. Can we expect the same thing next season? 

We have always had and continue to have regularly scheduled games on ABC. Last year, that programming slate was expanded for a variety of reasons, but I don’t have any news to share yet on what the shape of the Monday Night Football schedule on ABC will be.

Let’s talk about comedy. Abbott Elementary was renewed for its fourth season just a couple days after season three premiered. But you haven’t said if The Conners will return for season seven or if Not Dead Yet will be back for a third season. What’s your thinking about comedy on ABC going forward, especially with the big success of Abbott? 

We really believe in the power of a good comedy. You see what Abbott Elementary has done in terms of really transforming the comedy landscape. It was the first broadcast comedy to win Emmys and Golden Globes in years. It’s a show that does really well on ABC and also does really well on Hulu, and it’s really moved the needle on popular culture. So it’s a show we’re really proud of, and I think comedies have the ability to do that. So we’re certainly leaning in to more. I don’t have any news on The Conners and Not Dead Yet right now, but we are hard at work on developing the next generation of family-feeling comedies, multi-cams included.

Will you have some new ones for next season?

That’s the hope.

At Hulu and most streamers, you look at subscribers and churn rate and things like that when you’re trying to gauge the overall health of the platform. I’m wondering what you use to define success for ABC these days, especially now that the distinction in demo numbers for networks has become so tiny. Is it about how much profit it’s making for Disney? 

We have a variety of metrics. I’ll start with the most important one for us: Is this show creatively excellent? Is it something that we’re proud of? Is it distinct and original? It definitely starts there. That is a huge factor. But in terms of more material measurement, we know there’s a variety of ways and times when people tune in to watch their shows. So we take a look at all the platforms the show’s on over somewhat of an extended period of time. But ultimately, it becomes about how large the pie is. Some shows are better performers on linear; some shows over-index on Hulu. They just have to over-index somewhere. Ultimately, it has to aggregate to a large enough number to justify the investment.

And ABC is still an important part of this equation, yes? Some people think that broadcast networks have become irrelevant, that they might go away or companies like Disney will get out of the linear business. How important is ABC’s overall health to Dana and the other top execs in Burbank?  

Dana has been nothing but supportive of and an advocate for ABC. It’s a critical part of the Disney ecosystem. It not only services our customers who watch on the linear platforms; it’s also providing the next generation of tentpole reality shows, family-feeling comedies and case-driven procedurals to our Hulu viewers. And it is a massive promotional megaphone for the company. When Disney decides to get behind a priority, whether it’s Taylor Swift and Disney+ or the Academy Awards or the new season of 9-1-1, ABC is very important in getting the reach and the scale of that messaging correct. So we have a team here that is both passionate and dedicated about the power of broadcast television and in particular, the power and the history and the excellence and the legacy of ABC.

And it’s the thing that you have that the tech companies don’t have. 

It’s a tremendous advantage for us as we bring shows to market. And it’s also just something that we’re really proud of and it’s a great place for a lot of our creators to premiere their stories.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.