Rachel Chinouriri’s Capsule of Chaos

“There’s a degree of main-character syndrome that sometimes comes with trauma,” says 25-year-old breakout singer Rachel Chinouriri. “I think I had a lot of that when I was younger.” The London-based indie-pop artist’s debut album, What a Devastating Turn of Events, reflects on the heartbreak and bad decisions she admittedly made under the influence of “dumb bitch juice.” But it also delves into darker topics, including death, eating disorders, and self-harm. The project was written over the past two years, at a time when she was surrounded by friends who would victimize their own struggles and refuse to get help. But Chinouriri says she’s no longer drawn to people who follow her old playbook of “wallowing” in sadness. “I almost find them … not annoying, but I’m like, ‘Get your shit together!’” she says, shaking her fists. “It doesn’t have to be this bad!”

Chinouriri is speaking to a bigger audience than ever now. Her music often goes viral on TikTok, she’s opened for Lewis Capaldi and Louis Tomlinson, and she’s made famous fans out of Adele as well as Florence Pugh, who starred in the singer’s “Never Need Me” music video.

Raised in Croydon by immigrant parents from Zimbabwe, Chinouriri likes the idea of her first album being a soundscape of the U.K. as she experienced it growing up, from chirping birds on the opener to tracks influenced by nostalgic faves Coldplay and Kings of Leon. The album artwork also features the English flag, which is Chinouriri’s way of “reclaiming” its imagery, given how the country often treats Black people as outsiders. She first turned to music in high school in part because of racist bullying from fellow students. “It’s almost a celebration that through the trials and tribulations that same flag has put me through, I’ve been able to come out on top,” she says, while breaking down her new project’s lyrics. “That’s a reason to celebrate. It could have ended in many different ways, and it’s ended with me having an album.”

“Garden of Eden” | “The Hills” | “Never Need Me” | “My Everything” | “All I Ever Asked” | “It Is What It Is” | “Dumb Bitch Juice” | “What a Devastating Turn of Events” | “My Blood” | “Robbed” | “Cold Call” | “I Hate Myself” | “Pocket” | “So My Darling (Acoustic)”

Too young but too old for this
The kids are throwing up in the garden
Now I’ve lost my appetite
Forever growing dumb to the bottom

This is a striking image. What were you hoping to evoke?
I used “throwing up” because it sounds like “growing up.” You can never get back to the Garden of Eden once you’ve been exiled. For me, that was my house growing up. It’s just that moment of realization of getting older and not wanting to leave this place but having to.

How does the phrase “forever growing dumb to the bottom” relate to your perspective on aging?   
I was kind of thinking of all the positive things this could sound like and how to make them sound slightly negative. I think if you end up in a depressed state or negative mind-set, you are growing as a person. But no matter how hard you’re pushing, all the pressure — could be bad friends, bad life decisions, alcohol, drugs — is pushing you so far back that you’re actually pushing yourself into the ground. That’s what I wanted to represent. We’re growing the wrong way ’round.

When you don’t belong
The hills will know
It’s visible, you don’t belong here
Long way down the road from the hill I know
Invisible, my weakness

What do the hills represent to you? 
I wrote this in L.A. I remember being like, I’m privileged to even be able to go to massive houses in the Hollywood Hills, but this is not for me. I belong in the U.K. But to have a song about not belonging with artwork of England flags, a lot of people can find a double meaning in it. Black people have been made to feel like they don’t belong in the U.K. many times. I’ve almost normalized that feeling to some extent. And then being Black in indie music in the U.K. is a whole other struggle. I like the fact that it’s been able to be relatable in all those different aspects. Even though I have felt like an outsider, I’m like, Well, I belong there, so I’m gonna make a space for myself.

What makes your weakness “invisible”? 
The only time I’ve ever felt invisible was in Zimbabwe, in a sense of everyone being Black. When I first went, I was 13, and it was during the time I was in school getting bullied for being Black. It was almost scary that people weren’t looking at me when I walked. I was like, This is great. I moved to a school that was majority Black after, and then I went to Brit school. And going to school with more people who are from London, I realized you can actually be of different races, heritages, colors, sizes there and still belong. You can walk down one street in London and see someone from each continent, tenfold. I think I didn’t appreciate that because I was maybe seeking that feeling I had in Zimbabwe, but now I’ve realized that’s not what I want. There’s an invisibility I get from being in London, too. That feeling is like my weakness. I’m not a fan of standing out too much, which is weird ’cause I’m trying to be a musician.

It’s been a long time since I last saw you
You never swim, you drown in your drink
Revealing the secrets you think
You need me ’cos you’re scared
What the hell am I supposed to do?

You say this person never swims and later add that you can’t swim with them pulling you down. Why did you choose swimming as a metaphor?
It’s probably because I’m a triple water sign. Scorpio, Scorpio, Pisces, Scorpio, just endless amounts of fucking water. I do enjoy swimming. But also, the song is about a real person who had an alcohol-abuse problem. I was constantly getting into a cycle where people would say, “Oh, the person you’re getting with is like your dad.” And my dad had a drinking problem ’cause of the war, and he got epilepsy from drinking. It’s unfortunate that I’ve seen that happen. I don’t want to end up back in that. So I have this “just keep swimming” thing. I don’t wanna drown in someone’s situation when I’ve got my own situations I’m trying to swim through.

Did you know from the start it was going to be such an upbeat track? 
No. I think it was literally when I sent the person the song is about the message cutting him off. I was like, Ahhh, I feel really free. Even though I felt kind of bad, ’cause I genuinely think, as a person, he is one of the kindest and sweetest people. But from drinking, drugs, and a lot of unfortunate things … he can’t really get out of that cycle. So many people were trying to help him, and he has more than enough money and resources to help himself. But I also don’t think he’s willing to get out of it. There hit a point where I got fed up of babying him. He would call me for hours complaining when there was a very clear solution. It’s quite satisfying to sing it now because I don’t speak to him anymore.

How does your guilty conscience live like this?
Do you bury all your truth?
When you kiss me I say good-bye to all my senses
I’ll admit, that I trusted you and you dismissed it

Are these questions you still want to ask this person? When you write a song that is addressed to somebody in this way, do you hope they hear it?
This is about my last ex, who is my only ex, who I was with for five years. My last EP is about him. Thing is, I blocked him on every platform. I just like to pretend people have, I guess, died in that sense. So I’ll never get answers to those questions. There was a time when I was trying to, and he never gave them to me. He would just be like, Well, what do you expect me to do?

Now that I’m a bit older and have gone through a lot of therapy, I’ve realized I was in a really bad place. I think I was someone who was quite broken and had a maternal thing of taking care of men versus being in a relationship with them, so I would attract men who needed a lot of help. But even though I’m fully healed from the situation, sometimes I’m like, Damn! Why the fuck were you treating me like that? And I wonder if he’s ever been like, That was the best girlfriend I’ve ever had. But then I’m also like, I don’t want to know at all.

Somewhere beneath the surface
I wanna find
If you’re the problem or the purpose
’Cos it’s borderline
I never know if you’re sorry for what you said

How do you distinguish between when someone’s a problem or a purpose? 
When you’re the person who decides to break up with someone, I think there is always that turning point when you start realizing you can’t really make excuses for someone anymore. You have to decide, Is this worth losing?

What made you realize that for yourself?
This song definitely pushed me to break up with my ex. I wrote this about my friend’s breakup but while I was still with him. I think finishing this song and listening to it was me being like, Oh, crap. I know what I need to do now, actually.

Yeah, you’re just confusing as fuck and I wish I never tried my luck
Don’t know whether you’re in or you’re out
You should’ve told me you had doubts about it
All that shit that came out your mouth
It is what it is, what it is is a problem

What was all the shit you were hearing? 
It’s stuff like, “I would marry you if I wasn’t in the situation that I’m in. I don’t understand how no one else has got you, you’re the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen.” And it’s just kind of like, “Well, you’ve not asked me out.” I think “it is what it is” is kind of a phrase to end a situation. So with “what it is is a problem,” I was just reiterating, even though I’m accepting this situation, I am quite pissed off. My therapist has taught me well, but I’m someone who sometimes would like to seek revenge. Being the bigger person is pretty bloody tough sometimes.

Why was it important for you to strike a more conversational tone? The song also includes spoken verses and voice notes from friends. 
I don’t think it really happened on purpose. I was with Leroy Clampett, who works with Madison Beer and Justin Bieber, so it was a big session. But I remember I just was not in the mood, because I was quite pissed off with a guy. Usually I start with melody, but all the words were coming instead. It was very casual and chatty. The day we went in to finish the song, things had changed. Leroy was like, Is that guy still ignoring you? I was like, Nope, we just spoke for like seven hours yesterday. I was definitely having some terrible dating decisions during the album-writing process. [Laughs.] I’d always have a new story about another random man who I’d met on a night out or a dating app.

I’ll be giving it the same excuse
That “he looks so cute”
And my friends tell me no
But I keep sipping on this
Dumb bitch juice

A lot of your songs feel timeless, but these lyrics seem grounded in the Gen Z experience. 
My best friends, we all say it. I was in a session with Kenny Beats, and I was talking about missing my friend Mae. How we always make these stupid decisions, drinking dumb-bitch juice. And he was like, “That would be a good song title.”

Would you consider yourself sober from “dumb-bitch juice”?
Absolutely. Okay, let me not say that as keenly. I think a strong YES, in capital letters. Chaos used to feel safe, and now I find it quite annoying. Do I like to go out and have a tequila shot sometimes? Yes. Do me and my friends make silly decisions when we go out? Yes. But it’s not as frequently, and I know when to go home. In a way, alcohol did play a massive effect. When I was 22, 23, I was getting absolutely hammered and still hunting for the next thing to do at seven in the morning. I’ve now hit that age where I’m like, No, I’m not gonna party today because I have work tomorrow.

This song suggests that you’re partly responsible for getting hurt when you ignore your better judgment. How do you navigate self-forgiveness? 
I work really well with tough love. My mum is tough as fuck; that woman is a machine. When I was younger if I would fall and hurt myself, she would be like, “Well, did you do your shoelaces? Did you do your shoelaces? I didn’t raise an idiot, go and learn from your own mistakes.” I’ve now grown up to have that attitude to myself where I’m like, Well, of course this guy was a mug. Nothing good is coming from a man who wants to meet you at 2 a.m. in a club, smashed. There’s a degree of “doing it for the plot” where it’s a funny story, but how much of that is actually going to traumatize me? This song is definitely the point where it’s like, Okay, it’s no longer funny. It’s actually not fun at all.

What a disappointing world she didn’t choose
With a man’s ego to bruise
[…]
What a devastating loss we didn’t choose
She’s in me and she’s in you

This song is about a cousin in Zimbabwe who committed suicide after getting pregnant out of wedlock. What is the role of choice in these lyrics? 
In all of my other songs, I’ve always thought there was an element of choice. Even when it comes to things like suicide. That’s the choice she made. But then I’m like, Well, how many things were forced choices? The world I live in, I can have contraception. I haven’t had a pregnancy scare, but if I did, there are options for me and no one even needs to know about it. But a man has said to her, “You have to have a kid because it is in the Bible that you can’t do this. On top of being a whore, you’re a murderer.” There was just so much nasty, vulgar language used around her situation. It just gave me the perception that her hands were quite tied, and this was bound to happen to someone.

When’s the first time you recall thinking about concepts like gender inequality or the patriarchy?
It’s happened since I was young. My mum’s quite old school. Growing up, she was the one who worked and did everything, but she would always be like, “Your dad’s the head of the house.” So in my brain, it was always men to some degree in charge. And going to a very racist school, the white boys could get away with absolutely anything. I was around 11, noticing a difference with the way Black boys were seen. But then the amount that they would be excused with versus the girls, regardless of race … Then I started in the music industry, and that’s when shit started hitting the fan. Once I’d even get past the race hurdles, there was the being a woman hurdle.

What do I do when pain comes at a price I can’t afford?
What if I’m not worth healing?
What if I like this feeling?
Nobody seems to notice it’s the part that I adore

You’ve said in the past that you felt like you had to be depressed to write music. Were you still in that mind-set on this album? 
Yes. I feel lucky that I’ve had access to therapy. My life balance back then was quite poor. “My Blood” is about self-harm. I would pull out my hair from stress, and then I would miss therapy. It’s kind of like, Oh, do I like this feeling then? ’Cause I like being smashed and going out, but I also don’t want to then spend the time going to therapy. I think being a musician, you have an abundance of what you want, especially when you’re doing well. And people kind of don’t care about the needs until it’s too late. There’s a balance, and I learned a lot of that when writing “My Blood” for sure.

What would you say to somebody who relates to these lyrics? 
One, you’re not alone. Two, I’m gonna tough love answer this: You need to be realistic with what’s around you and what you are capable of. For me, I think I would panic about all these hypothetical situations. So my advice would be to ask yourself what is real and what you can do. Just sitting there not doing anything at all is worse.

We were perfect strangers
One life torn in two
You were robbed of summer
I was robbed of you

These lines are a very concise, effective way to convey how you felt about deaths in your family. Why was this the best approach to expressing your emotions? 
I think the simplicity of these lyrics comes from my Coldplay inspo. When I was getting bullied, I heard “Fix You” for the first time on the way home. “When you try your best, but you don’t succeed.” I just burst into tears after the first line. And I replayed it and replayed it and replayed it, like, Why is this song hitting me when it’s so simple? But sometimes that’s all you need. With “Robbed,” I was like, I could make it a super-poetic thing. But I don’t want people to second guess what the message is. There was a very young person who passed in my family, then also my cousin, from “What a Devastating Turn of Events.” I never got to meet either of them. The message is exactly what it needs to be: Someone has passed, and we were robbed. I think that is more heartbreaking than trying to make something overly complex.

Has your family heard the album? 
Not yet. But I think they know what I write about. My family kind of leaves me to do what I want when it comes to music, ’cause they know it’s a way that I let out my emotions.

My mum has seen so much death since she was 13. When we were younger, she’d teach us to look back every five seconds when you walk in case someone kills you. That’s not normal to say to a child, but she would say that and more. She hasn’t processed a lot of stuff she’s gone through. Now she’s getting older, and she feels like she can kind of let go. As soon as I turned 18, I could almost feel the weight lift off her shoulders of, Okay, you’re a self-functioning being now. She’s started becoming more emotional and understanding sadder songs. Before she was like, “What do you mean you’re traumatized?” Now she’s like, “Okay, I understand it.” Which is a beautiful thing to be able to have with your mum, even though she was super strict.

So I won’t take these cold calls anymore
Anymore
Anymore
Anymore
Anymore
Anymore
Anymore

Your voice blends into the instrumental on the word “anymore.” Can you tell me about the thought process behind that delivery? 
I was really inspired by “Politik” by Coldplay. My team actually sent them the song, and they said they liked it. The original “Cold Call” chorus was way more about a friend’s story, but I tried to make the sentiment something I could relate to as well. And sometimes I feel like I wanna scream into nothing. I was like, Well, this will do the trick, just having the angry guitars and the drums going. Recording the “anymore”s felt a bit therapeutic. It was almost a primal vibe of letting go. I don’t think I did it in that many takes. I remember it felt quite easy.

Saw my lunch sprayed on the bathroom floor
My new size small don’t fit no more
My body aches, jaw looks gaunt
The compliments and likes come more

There’s a sense of disconnect from your body in these lyrics. Was there a specific feeling you wanted to convey when writing about an eating disorder? 
There is a element of almost not being you. I think humans know what is natural, and the world we live in is very unnatural. With beauty standards, it’s the whole unnaturalness of wanting to be something that you physically can’t be. Especially as an African woman, I’m quite curvy. I could never be like the Kate Mosses, because my natural anatomy is not like that. Even though in my brain I knew that, I was still doing it anyway. I was never like, Oh, I’m doing this to myself. I was just kind of like, Well, that’s just happened … at least I look skinnier. It’s kind of the realization of action and reward.

Were you writing this song while you were experiencing this? 
No. I was so happy within my own body and my own skin. I was actually really far from that situation. I don’t think I realized how much it affected me until I actually wrote the song and reflected back. It happened in the pandemic when I was 21 to 22. I took off my top, and my ex was like, “When’s the last time you went to the gym? You’re fat.” And I was a size 6 to 8; my clothes were extra small to small. And I’d also just started contraception. He was a very good-looking model, so that’s probably what was contributing to it. But I gave him the sass. I remember walking out, like, “Don’t ever say that to me again. Go and look for a new girl.”

But I contracted COVID maybe a couple days after that, and I couldn’t eat anything. I lost so much weight but really drastically. And I was like, Oh, being sick and being unable to eat makes me skinny. Then I threw up, and I was like, Oh, I look even skinnier. That’s when all the ideas started in my brain. But as soon as I started even hinting at that, my friends were like, “Absolutely not,” which I thank God for, to be honest.

I’m sorry that the sunshine I provided isn’t letting you grow
Little did I know
Love could be so easy

How did you come up with the idea of comparing a relationship to growing a plant?
Sometimes I get in my little cutesy moods. It was near the end of my L.A. trip, and I was kind of fed up of writing about how terrible love is. I was like, Let me write a song about how much I love someone and want to keep them in my pocket. Imagine if someone’s been trying to love me, and I couldn’t allow our relationship to blossom because I was in a bad place.

So it was kind of a reflective moment, thinking about really appreciating and loving someone. I was single as fuck and still in my men-are-trash era at that point. But I always told myself, once I find that person, I’ll give them this song. And then I did manage to meet someone very unexpectedly, the same month that I told everyone I was not going to have a boyfriend for the whole year. I sent him this song, and he was like, “This is really sweet.” He ended up asking me out, and I’ve been with him for just over four months now.

Then we went down our separate ways
Felt really empty and everything changed
We reunited, it felt just the same
Now we love in a different way, yeah

This song is about your friend Marcus, who you had a one-sided crush on for several years. What role have platonic relationships with men played in your life? 
It’s interesting because that’s really changed a lot. I think being rejected by Marcus was one thing, which happened when I was 16. But maybe in the last year or so … I didn’t realize how terrible my relationship with men was. Most of my best friends are women. A lot of my male friends that I did have knew me when I was in a five-year relationship. The moment I became single, every single one of those boys hands down tried it with me in one way, shape, or form. And that’s when it started making me think, Oh, are you actually my friend or do you just find me good looking? I ended up in situationships with people who I thought were friends, then realized they were just waiting for a long time to get with me but also didn’t care about me after. I think when you’re straight there is that concept of, if there’s a good-looking guy and we instantly click, everyone’s like, “You have to go out.” But this year, I was like, I want to change that. It’s like, no, maybe I just appreciate our friendship. And now I’ve got male friends, and we hang out. It’s been a good journey to experience and be on.

How has the song evolved since the version of it you first wrote at 17? 
The original original “So My Darling” before I had management was very similar to the “So My Darling” that’s gone viral on TikTok. It was a two-guitar, strummy, soft thing. When I got signed, I allowed too many opinions to factor into how the song ended up turning out. I didn’t think I could say no. Someone who works with Dua Lipa was like, “You want it to hit radio.” People would be like, “We’re gonna put this tuning on there.” When I heard it, I was like, Well, it’s not like the demo, but I guess it’s elevated, so maybe this is good enough. Then the rough, acoustic version went viral. Most of the comments were saying the other one’s nice, but we don’t want it. So that was a massive changing point for me with my sound. I was like, Maybe my younger self who internally was saying no was correct. The only person who knows if their sound is right is me. This song definitely encapsulates who I am as an artist and reminds everyone of the journey we’ve been on for years to get here.

With this coming after “Pocket,” the album closes with a sense of optimism. Do you think that will carry into your next body of work?
I don’t know. I like making worlds, and I feel like the world we’ve made with all the flags and hair clips has been really cool. And now I feel like I’m ready to have a bit more fun. But that could be the third or fourth album. I think maybe I need to carry on on this songwriter indie kind of vibe for another album. I’ve already got a few song titles. I feel like it can kind of go anywhere.

This interview has been edited and condensed. 

If you or anyone you know are in crisis, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

A performing arts school that boasts alums including Amy Winehouse, Tom Holland, and Adele.

Chinouriri’s parents met as 13-year-old child soldiers in Zimbabwe’s independence war.