Hacks Recap: Challengers

As this recapper anticipated — as you surely did, too — Ava’s working relationship with Deborah comes with zero boundaries. She is staying in the 1987–1992 guest suite, surrounded by era-appropriate Deborah paraphernalia (photos with war criminals, Oprah), and no one even knocks before they enter her room.

Deborah has been waiting for over 40 years to host Late Night. The only catch is that the network has never hired a woman for 11:30 p.m., or anyone as old as Deborah, or a blonde. It’s so funny to hear people talk about linear television that way. Like, I am aware that this is technically a thing, but it’s such an outdated way of even thinking about this content … “11:30” as a concept is not a real thing. Time is a light suggestion. Deborah considers, briefly, running for president instead — she would be the youngest candidate for 2024, though no one in the show points this out — and decides it’s not worth it because the White House is too small.

Ava’s first job is to fire the new writers. For some reason, Deborah believes delegating this task, rather than humanely executing it herself, will … not make enemies? Somebody didn’t even watch the very first episode of Game of Thrones, and it shows. Ava is spectacularly bad at firing them; they swiftly turn on each other with allegations like “You’re the reason I didn’t make the Lampoon until junior year.” This brings us to an enduring theme of the series, and I wonder how you all feel about it: Ava is spectacularly bad at almost everything, and personally, I feel like we are rapidly approaching Liz Lemon levels of implausible haplessness in a show that is set in a significantly more grounded universe than 30 Rock. Does Ava’s (frankly absurd) inability to do pretty basic, grown-up tasks distract or annoy you? Or is it all fine because it’s good for the bit?

Deborah is getting roasted, which Ava hates — she finds roasts “vile,” “problematic,” and “almost fascistic.” Deborah prints out full-body pictures of all the participants to figure out how to best mock their bodies. The producers have told Deborah that a family member should participate, so Deborah tries to sweet-talk DJ into joining. A genuinely psychotic idea considering their relationship, but sure!!! DJ is five years sober and wants her mom to attend her five-year-chip meeting. Deborah tries to get out of it (she offers $25,000 instead), but relents when she realizes it’s the only way to get DJ to the roast.

At the meeting, Deborah is supposed to say a few genuine words to her daughter about her sobriety, but she doesn’t even know which “Anonymous” this is (Narcotics, not Alcoholics) and desperately texts Ava to come up with personal language for her on the fly. As you might expect, the meeting goes disastrously because Deborah can’t help but turn a moment about DJ into an opportunity to work out her material in front of a new crowd while also roasting her daughter (“In kindergarten, she learned her ABCs backward so she could recite them to a cop”). She awkwardly pivots into the bit she’s practicing for her own roast? As frequently happens on Hacks, I feel like the way the room within the show reacts to Deborah’s jokes (with wild, enthusiastic laughter) is extremely … off.

In a post-meeting argument, DJ blurts out that she’s pregnant and that all she wants is to protect her kid from being fucked up by Deborah. I love the moment when DJ responds to Deborah’s insistence that she at least take an Uber if she won’t take a ride with a defiant “I’m locked out of my account.” Incredible line-reading by Kaitlin Olson.

I am SO excited to see Kiki, my favorite star in the Hacks universe, backstage at a PTA fashion show for Luna’s school. Because this is Vegas, all the moms are “showgirls, acrobats, or married to a Raider”; the fundraiser is for “older rich dads with late-in-life kids,” as Kiki informs us, which is why she needs glitter on her ass crack. Also, we get a few casual, gratuitous shots of topless women, just in case you were like, Is Max going to carry on the legacy of HBO in the ways that really matter? Kiki teaches Ava how boundaries with Deborah work — namely, you won’t necessarily get her to respect them, but you will at least be able to be compensated for her repeated violation of them, and either way, it’s worth it to draw a line and keep things appropriate.

Back at the ranch: DJ is thrilled to be a part of the roast so she can tear her mom to pieces. Her jokes are abysmal. She’s hung up on making the catchphrase “What a cunt!” work. Ava gently suggests that this is not a wise move. Everyone, even Deborah, is concerned about DJ humiliating herself. Deborah volunteers her services as a grandma-to-be (“buying baby toys that educate but also make no sound,” lol) and a comic by writing DJ’s roast, and DJ is LIVID. Nobody has seen DJ’s jokes by showtime, and everyone is prepared for a catastrophe.

At the show, Deborah meets Jack Danby, an impeccably dressed flirt and star on the rise. Before going onstage, Deborah needs to spit out her lozenge, which she does in Ava’s hand. (If you’ve seen Challengers, you know this has the potential to be VERY erotic, but in this case, it was just gross.)

Was the roast funny? (“Deborah’s so old she still calls movies ‘the talkies.’” Ba-dum-csssch!) Am I asking the wrong questions? Deborah gets a great turnout — roasters include Natasha Leggero and Patton Oswalt — and DJ goes last and kills. Her delivery of “What a cunt!” really HITS. And her joke about being a C-section birth because Deborah said, “I’m known for my grip,” is funny. More importantly, DJ learns something crucial about her mother. As she reports to Deborah after the taping, “I spent my whole life thinking you were a narcissist. But it turns out you’re an addict, like me! Your addiction IS the group! There’s no hope for you! You’ll never get better!!” Heartened by this epiphany, DJ skips off into the night.

Meanwhile, Deborah gets some bad news: Jack Danby is the front-runner to replace Danny Collins in Late Night. Back to work! But first, boundaries. Ava returns Deborah’s lozenge (hilariously, Deborah does not want it back because “it’s been in your hand”). She wants clear-cut hours, to only work on professional material, and “no more jokes about my personal appearance,” and if it were me, I’d get all this in writing, but what do I know. Deborah agrees on the condition that Ava also makes time to work on her own material, which is very nice of her! She also recruits Josefina to deliver her zingers about Ava (“Do you need me to give your hair CPR because it is limp and lifeless?”), and, well, at least Deborah is cackling. It’s so important to make yourself laugh.

Episode four begins with Deborah on a mission. Interestingly, it takes Deborah so long to come around to the idea that it’s smart to really GO for the job that she wants rather than wait passively to be chosen for it. It seems a little out of character, no? I’m intrigued by the ways in which she still feels the unspoken rules for women need to govern her life even though she, as Ava will point out, has had her greatest successes by ignoring those norms and doing what’s right for her. Jimmy assures Deborah that her age is an asset, not a liability: “They probably want someone diverse. Well, guess what? Old is diverse.” (Perfectly timed to cut to Marcus’s face.) Also, I need to note how pathetic Ava is being here — she is literally eating dog biscuits during this scene.

In the interest of working on her own stuff, Ava asks Jimmy what opportunities are out there for her. What follows is a very The Other Two–type list, including a bisexual Gumby who “bends both ways” (working title: Gumbi), something with Sleeping Beauty, but “this time, it’s consensual”; a spinoff about the animated spoon from Beauty and the Beast because Gen Z thinks it’s hot. “They want something that focuses on his love life.” (Okay, so call it Little Spoon?! This practically writes itself!)

The gang needs to get a meeting with Winnie, and the only way in, as discovered by Kayla, is through pickleball. (Kayla made out with Winnie’s second assistant, Avi, seven years ago.) This is an A+ maneuver by Kayla, and I’m very proud of her! Jimmy played tennis at Brown, so how hard could pickleball be? Though this episode ran a bit long and did not need quite so much footage of the actual pickleball game, I did enjoy seeing Kayla and Jimmy work as a team, make $20,000, and successfully put in a good word for Deborah with the big boss. Plus, Kayla’s memory of Jimmy giving her tennis lessons as a kid was so sweet, and Jimmy’s intro to Winnie — “You had sex with my dad?” — was perfect.

Deborah gets invited to a group colonoscopy weekend in Vegas. It’s cooler than it sounds! There’s also gambling and golfing. The comedians she’s admired all her life have invited her into their little club, led by Henry (Stephen Tobolowsky). This invitation means she has earned the approval of her idols, and it’s all going great until one of them makes a joke about bisexuals that Deborah, friend to Ava, finds herself unable to stomach. When she steps out to collect herself, she hears them shit-talking her (colonoscopy pun!) through the vents: She’s a buzzkill, PC police, pretty much what you’d expect from blowhards of their generation. She steals all their toilet paper on her way out the door.

While Deborah is away, Ava’s entire life crumbles through her Ring camera. Ruby breaks up with her. It’s all very sad and dystopian … dumped through the doorbell, how Black Mirror. Though she has some shining moments as the only white person on Marcus’s trivia team and reconnects with Ray from the Palmetto, who takes trivia VERY seriously, Ava is a wreck. She returns home to find Deborah furious at her for having made her someone who cannot sit silently while hacks (Leo pointing meme) make tired jokes about how girls are only bi for the attention. Not that she was doing it for Ava, Deborah insists: “Other bisexuals! Alan Cumming, Malcolm X!” Deborah got what she thought she wanted only to discover that she didn’t want it anymore, and the only person to take her pain out on is Ava.

Finally, they are able to have a calmer conversation and bond over childhood memories. It turns out the only time Deborah’s drunk dad wasn’t an asshole was when Johnny Carson was on. Deborah wanted to live inside that hour. Ava, as she has done from the beginning, tells Deborah that she should be honest and share her personal story. “I don’t think you have the luxury of playing this safe because you’re not the safe choice.” Genuinely great advice, v incongruous with the sad-sack girl we are to believe she is in other contexts!

So Deborah gets over her fear of public failure and goes all in on her dreams. She announces while co-hosting the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade that she wants to host Late Night. Mario Lopez handles this as professionally as he can: by answering her question about his circumcision status. Deborah is everywhere, all the places she thought were beneath her: She’s adopted a highway, she’s doing the weather, she’s got a Dunkin’ “Midnight” Roast (clever, even though I thought the whole point is that the time slot is 11:30?), she’s doing Talk Stoop, NOT to be confused with Talk Soup. And it all pays off with a voice-mail from Winnie, whose son saw a Deborah makeup tutorial, leading Winnie to believe Deborah “might have wider appeal than [she] thought.”

“Executives love listening to their kids,” Kayla says. “I was actually at the sleepover where we decided that Tobey Maguire would be the next Spiderman.” Kayla is the MVP of this episode. Should she and Jimmy get married to get a discount for the country club?