Da’Vine Joy Randolph on What Was and Wasn’t Supposed to Happen in The Idol

The fourth episode of The Idol is perhaps its most ludicrous yet, featuring, among other things, Troye Sivan in a shock collar and the Weeknd fingering Lily-Rose Depp to orgasm in front of a roomful of people, but it’s also a standout for its overdue, extremely welcome deployment of Da’Vine Joy Randolph. Randolph, a Tony Award–winning actress who’s played wickedly funny supporting characters in High Fidelity, The Lost City, and Only Murders in the Building, is consistently one of the most believable and entertaining parts of The Idol. As Jocelyn’s protective, dubious manager Destiny, she brings a much-needed wry comedic energy and humanity to even the most absurd of Sam Levinson scenes, often with as little as a blasé one-liner (“Never trust a dude with a rattail”) or an incredulous eyebrow raise.

On this week’s episode, Randolph thankfully gets to do more than that. Destiny is something of an omniscient narrator, creeping around Jocelyn’s house like a better-dressed Harriet the Spy, observing the abject degeneracy therein and occasionally dropping a pithy, quietly scathing bon mot. She gives an impromptu vocal lesson to Suzanna Son’s Chloe and later to Jocelyn; she does coke with Tedros Tedros; she watches, in hilariously muted horror, as he and Jocelyn engage in the aforementioned bizarro sex act; she attempts, in a stunned, lock-the-bathroom-door stream of consciousness, to explain it all to her co-manager Chaim (Hank Azaria) over the phone. After watching the episode, I called Randolph to talk about her seemingly effortless comedic timing, improvising her way through the series, her take on the meta-conversation surrounding The Idol, and what’s going on with season two.

How did you end up on The Idol?
Sam Levinson was in a meeting, I guess, for this project, and as the new-iteration characters were added, he was like, “There’s this one character Destiny, and I’d love to have a Da’Vine Joy Randolph type.” The meeting was with CAA and they were like, “Well, we have her … Do you just want her?”

So we talked and he went to great lengths to explain the world to me. Abel even got in on one of the conversations, and we all chitchatted, and I was like, Wow, this is so different and honest. In true Sam Levinson fashion, he took on a challenge in addressing things that people don’t want to necessarily talk about or see. And there aren’t many TV directors who think in this way; his shows are like films.

And at that point, there were no scripts yet, right?
Correct. Well, there were definitely scripts, but it wasn’t a traditional five episodes, like, “Here’s 100 percent what this show is gonna be.” It was communicated like, “We’re also really open to developing and creating more.” I was told it would be a collaborative experience where we’d be figuring it out together as we go. To be honest, a lot of times with that as an actor, it’s like, Hmmm, are we really gonna do that? But he truly was collaborative from start to finish, wanting to know what we all thought.

What did that look like functionally? What parts of Destiny did you help create?
Sam described her as this woman who’s been there, done that, been in that world, probably been a performing artist herself and now went on to the managerial side of things. Very intelligent and well-versed, whereas the other guys on Jocelyn’s team are sort of into the practicum of it. It’s a good pairing with Chaim, not to say he’s just dollars and cents, but Destiny brings a whole other layer to it — she’s innovative and exciting and a badass and she means what she says. When I got that blueprint I went into her backstory, her clothing — almost like a uniform or an armor for her.

From there, it was scene by scene: Okay, this is what we want to have happen — how do we go about this? Would she say something like this? Yes, the script says this, but does that sound right? Would she say something better? There was a lot of improv involved. I’ve never experienced something like that. We truly found the character together. And once things started to stick, we leaned into them. I knew I wanted her to be othered. Already she’s a Black female, but I wanted there to be something completely different about her energy. I was like, it could be really cool, if all these people are L.A. cats, if she’s a New Yorker. New York and L.A. music scenes are two completely different things. I wanted to make her a bit of a disruptor. I was adamant, too, that I don’t do anything unless there’s a message and my character has a purpose outside of the obvious. So we talked about her drive, and we came up with: She’s the female’s champion. Having experienced things herself, she’ll make sure that nobody goes through anything on her watch.

Is she fully on Jocelyn’s side? It’s not always clear.
It was sort of a psychological tightrope. She’s a shape-shifter, changing who she needs to be for each person to get the job done. It was sort of a game for me, which keeps me engaged as an artist: Who am I, and to which person, right now? For Jocelyn, am I her best friend? Her sister? Her mother? Maybe I’m biased, but I think Destiny is one of the few people Jocelyn can really trust. I hope. I mean, I can’t control how people see it — people may see it as manipulative, but to me, it’s not manipulative at all. I think for Destiny, she has to act accordingly in order to get results and see Jocelyn win. Sometimes in a scene it would literally change line by line, my role to her. It was maddening in a great way.

If I’m honest, I don’t usually get that challenged in my work. I’ve been very blessed to be consistently working and I don’t take that lightly at all; it’s an extreme privilege, especially in the midst of the strike. But that was part of taking the job: I see where I can keep myself on my toes, keep the intrigue.

So is most of what we’re actually seeing each week the stuff that you all improvised or wrote day-of, while filming? Or is it the scripted stuff?
It’s a mix, 50-50. I haven’t seen everything yet, but so far what’s come out is a mix of scripted and improvised, at least in regards to the stuff I was in.

And what about this week’s episode?
I haven’t seen it yet but I believe that this one, it’s a lot of improv. I call this one the “sleepover pool party.” A lot of that was kind of like, “This is the given circumstance, this is a party. Go.” And then we’d zoom in on certain moments. I’d say a lot of the showdown of Tedros and Destiny by the firepit was improvised. And all of my little bathroom phone conversations with Chaim were all improvised. A lot of times Sam would be like, “Yeah, I like that, but throw in this line too.” A lot of the scene with Chloe, that whole thing with the singing, we just kind of rolled with that one.

I think you and Rachel Sennott are doing something really different than the rest of the cast is doing, almost like you’re in a different world. You specifically are so good at conveying humor with the smallest of gestures or expressions. Can you talk to me about the tone you’re striking? Are you actively trying to make Destiny funny? Or are you playing her straight and the humor comes from there?
With Destiny, she’s someone who’s like, I know I’m in this dog-eat-dog, male-dominated world, and she gets off on the power. She gets off when she’s around white people in these meetings, like, I dare you to underestimate me. She also has such a love for this, and she’s a creator. So what comes off comical is that even these high-stakes, outrageous things that happen — she’s been there, she’s done that. In the pilot, when she’s like, “Yeah! It’s cum on her face. Let’s keep it moving!” For her, it’s playing with both of those things: She’s committed and driven, she knows she’s an asset, and at the same time, nothing really, as of now, can rock her or shake her. She’s like, “Brush it off, onto the next. Let’s go,” where everybody else is crying and falling apart.

Back to the scene with Suzanna Son — I know you have a singing background. That was all riffed on the spot? Was it always the plan for you to sing on the show?
No. That wasn’t supposed to happen. If I remember correctly, the scene was just supposed to be like a Law and Order interrogation scene: “You gotta get the information from this girl, who’s probably the best bet, in her supposed ditziness, to get the most information on what this guy is about.” But there’s also an eeriness to it — she seems tormented, a little Stockholm syndrome–ish. But as they talk, Destiny is realizing, There’s something special about this person. Yet again, this man has her under his spell and/or control. Even for me as the actor, it started off just as an interrogation — manipulate her, get information for my girl Jocelyn, get in and get out. But for both me and Destiny, we started to see: Oh, this girl is interesting and complicated. So Destiny’s heart starts to go out to her.

And while this was all going on, Suzy was playing on a little keyboard. She’d hum a little bit. And at one point, Sam was like, “Suzy” — not Chloe — “play D your recent song you’ve been working on.” Mind you, I don’t know if we’re still rolling or not. Which would happen a lot, which is great; it’s so candid and real. And at one point, she was like, “Oh, this one part I have trouble reaching.” And I’m a classically trained opera singer and did Broadway and all of that, but I don’t come to sets telling people I can sing. I actually stay very quiet about it. There’s a lot of people singing on this show, and I was like, “I’m not saying shit.” But she was having difficulty and I was like, “Oh, try this.” And it got a bit better and she wasn’t super-satisfied. And I was like, “What if you try it this way?” And it rang out! And she loved it.

Again, I didn’t know if we were taping or not. But Sam was like, “I love that. Let’s do more of that. Can you show her?” I was like, “Nooooo!” But I knew, in that moment: Da’Vine, this is what this scene needs. You gotta do it. But just once and it’ll be done. You gotta have a great working environment for that. You gotta feel comfortable and solid and cared for in a space in order to do that.

To that point, I’m sure you’ve been following the discourse about the show and the Rolling Stone piece and the allegations of toxicity and chaos on set. What was it like to read that piece — did any of it resonate for you?
I just didn’t connect with any of it. I’ve worked enough in this industry, though I have a very young career, that the moment I would have felt like, “Hmmm, something’s wrong …” I would have been like, “Get me out of here!” I’m grown! I’m in my 30s! I get it, rumors, blah, blah, blah. But I promise you, I would not have done this project at this stage in my life if that was the case. Honestly, due to the subject matter, I think it was more sensitive. What was required of Lily, what was required of Abel and all of us, even just being in the space where things were happening, there was a lot of care and sensitivity. Like, “Today’s gonna be an uncomfortable day, we gotta shoot this scene …”

I’ll just say this: I don’t think there’d be any way possible for them to have gotten the product they did if it was toxic. The cast would have quit and left. That never happened. I just think it’s kind of how the world is, or maybe one person felt that in another iteration of it. But overall, in part two, the second iteration, whatever we want to call it — that was not my experience. And I didn’t observe that to be other people’s experience. I can’t speak for other people, but the way we shot it, we were all there just about every day. In this community-like ensemble shooting, I don’t think I had any days off, really. Maybe two or three, collectively. So I think I have a pretty good gauge of the tone and the atmosphere. Part two was done because they really wanted something good, and didn’t want to just get it done. I mean, we filmed it in the man’s house! I’d never do that! [Laughs.]

Yeah, that’s wild.
And to be honest, I was like, this is amazing press. It’s a lie, but fantastic. We haven’t even shown a trailer yet and y’all … It’s a high-profile piece, and Sam Levinson has a lot of attention on him. But even with Euphoria, when it was uncomfortable, with seemingly underage kids doing things that were like, “Whew!” — there was still a message. It was a warning to parents, like, “Yo, check in with your kids. You think little Johnny is going to soccer practice? No, no, no, no.”

I knew there was no way that a man who created that would just have a departure. But I get it. The first two episodes are set up a certain way … But in three and then four, things really start to change. That’s why I said at Cannes in the press conference, “You’ve only seen the first two episodes! There’s no way it’s that obvious.” Sam always puts in the heart. And he wants to hold up a mirror to real things that are going on. As Abel says, it’s a cautionary tale. He’s grateful he didn’t have a Tedros-type person in his career, but these people are real and out there. Things he’s seen and heard.

Do you worry that point is getting lost, though?
My mom is a schoolteacher and she used to say, “Those who needed the extra credit never did the extra credit when it was offered. And those who didn’t need it — the A students — always did the extra credit.” Similarly, in life and in this industry, those who need to get the message will get the message. Those who don’t? It’s not for them right now. The beautiful thing about TV and movies is you can always go back to it. Those who have an aptitude and intellect and awareness and an emotional intelligence, to see it and see it critically, you’ll pick up on those things. Or maybe you won’t immediately, and if you care to, you can watch it again and catch it that time. I’m not expecting everyone to catch it in 40 minutes. I was living with it for months, so of course I get it. I think it’ll start to be understood once people see episode four and definitely five. The goal is people sitting with it after episode five. Y’all are intelligent. I don’t wanna play with people’s intelligence. I don’t want to see or be a part of dumbed-down content. This one will challenge you, but that’s good.

What was it like to film the scene where the Weeknd had to finger Lily-Rose Depp in front of the entire cast?
That was written where, on the day, it was like, “Okay. Today’s the day. It’s happening …” But it was done so classy. I know that sounds crazy, but I promise you. It wasn’t like, beating it into the ground and doing that specific part over and over again. I don’t know what actually the camera got, but what’s interesting in that scene, is you see the little cult or the little band, and you realize, Oh, he’s done a version of this to every single one of these people in this room. Destiny realizes, Oh, okay. It’s not about the sexual act, but this is his form of control. He knows what he’s doing; he’s just just a goofy guy. I’ve seen this before, I’m unfazed, but you’re smarter than I thought you were. In that moment, she’s like, Whew. I got a lot to work against.

I think what will be interesting and complicated, especially if we move on to season two — what’s tricky about him is that his unorthodox ways get a good product. That’s where Destiny is gonna be fucked up morally. She’s 100 percent against all of this, but there’s that extreme love for this music and industry and developing artists. I think it’ll begin to mess with Destiny more and more, because she’s like, “Yo, but do you hear what these kids sound like?!” And I think that viewers are probably conflicted, too, in watching this, which I think is super interesting and probably what Sam intended. Like, “I frickin’ love this, but I shouldn’t.”

Do you think the show has been left open-ended for a season two? Have you heard anything?
I think intentionally, yes. I see season one as setting up the world in great detail and character development, to set up a season two where it’s like, now we’re really going to get in the shit. When you finish a project, it’s always like, “Is there a possibility for season two?” And they’re always like, “Yeah, for sure!” It’s everyone’s desire and intention to do a season two, and until we hear differently, that’s the plan. But I know it hasn’t been, like, officially announced. But definitely when we ended, from what I know, HBO has been very pleased and into it and there hasn’t been anything against it yet, to be like, “No, we’re pulling the plug.”

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.